47 Elizabeth II, A.D. 1998, Canada

Journals of the Senate

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Issue 48

Tuesday, March 24, 1998
2:00 p.m.

The Honourable Gildas L. Molgat, Speaker

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The Members convened were:

The Honourable Senators

Adams, Andreychuk, Angus, Atkins, Austin, Bacon, Beaudoin, Bryden, Buchanan, Butts, Callbeck, Carney, Carstairs, Cochrane, Cogger, Cohen, Cook, Cools, Corbin, De Bané, DeWare, Di Nino, Doody, Eyton, Ferretti Barth, Fitzpatrick, Forest, Forrestall, Gauthier, Ghitter, Gigantès, Grafstein, Graham, Grimard, Hébert, Hervieux-Payette, Jessiman, Johnson, Johnstone, Joyal, Kelleher, Kelly, Keon, Kinsella, Kirby, Kolber, LeBreton, Lewis, Lucier, Lynch-Staunton, Maheu, Meighen, Mercier, Milne, Molgat, Moore, Murray, Nolin, Oliver, Pearson, Pépin, Poulin, Prud'homme, Rivest, Roberge, Rompkey, Rossiter, Simard, Sparrow, Stanbury, Stewart, Stollery, Tkachuk, Watt, Wood

PRAYERS

SENATORS' STATEMENTS

Some Honourable Senators made statements.

DAILY ROUTINE OF BUSINESS

Presentation of Reports from Standing or Special Committees

The Honourable Senator Cools, Deputy Chair of the Standing Senate Committee on National Finance, presented its Third Report (Supplementary Estimates (B) 1997-98).

Ordered, That the Report be printed as an Appendix to the Journals of the Senate of this day and form part of the permanent records of this House.

(See Appendix)

The Honourable Senator Cools moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Johnstone, that the Report be placed on the Orders of the Day for consideration at the next sitting.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.

Government Notices of Motions

With leave of the Senate, The Honourable Senator Carstairs moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Senator Johnstone:

That when the Senate adjourns today, it do stand adjourned until tomorrow, Wednesday, March 25, 1998, at 1:30 p.m.

After debate, The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.

Tabling of Reports from Inter-Parliamentary Delegations

The Honourable Senator Milne tabled the following:

Report of the Canadian Delegation of the Canada-Europe Parliamentary Association to the Meetings of the Council of Europe Parliamentary Assembly, held in Paris and Strasbourg, France, from June 19 to 25, 1997.-Sessional Paper No. 1/36-521.

Report of the Canadian Delegation of the Canada-Europe Parliamentary Association to the meeting of the Committee on Economic Affairs and Development of the Council of Europe Parliamentary Assembly Preparatory Session on the Operations of the European Bank for Reconstruction and Development, held in London, England, on February 17 and 18, 1997.-Sessional Paper No. 1/36-522.

ORDERS OF THE DAY

GOVERNMENT BUSINESS

Bills

Orders No. 1 to 3 were called and postponed until the next sitting. Second reading of Bill C-6, An Act to provide for an integrated system of land and water management in the Mackenzie Valley, to establish certain boards for that purpose and to make consequential amendments to other Acts.

The Honourable Senator Forest moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Fitzpatrick, that the Bill be read the second time.

After debate, The Honourable Senator Kinsella for the Honourable Senator St. Germain, P.C., moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator DeWare, that further debate on the motion be adjourned until the next sitting.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted. Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator De Bané, P.C., seconded by the Honourable Senator Lucier, for the second reading of Bill C-9, An Act for making the system of Canadian ports competitive, efficient and commercially oriented, providing for the establishing of port authorities and the divesting of certain harbours and ports, for the commercialization of the St. Lawrence Seaway and ferry services and other matters related to maritime trade and transport and amending the Pilotage Act and amending and repealing other Acts as a consequence.

After debate, The Honourable Senator Kinsella for the Honourable Senator Angus moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Kelly, that further debate on the motion be adjourned until the next sitting.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.

OTHER BUSINESS

Senate Public Bills

Orders No. 1 and 2 were called and postponed until the next sitting.

Reports of Committees

Resuming debate on the consideration of the Final Report of the Special Committee of the Senate on Post-Secondary Education, tabled in the Senate on December 16, 1997.

Debate concluded. Orders No. 2 and 3 were called and postponed until the next sitting. Ordered, That the Order of the Day for consideration of the Second Report of the Standing Joint Committee for the Scrutiny of Regulations (Royal Canadian Mounted Police Regulations, 1988), tabled in the Senate on February 26, 1998, be discharged. Order No. 5 was called and postponed until the next sitting.

Other

Order No. 18 (inquiry) was called and postponed until the next sitting. Resuming debate on the inquiry of the Honourable Senator Ghitter calling the attention of the Senate to the concerns expressed by Albertans with regard to the Senate as an institution: (a) its effectiveness, usefulness and viability; (b) alternative means by which to select members of the Senate; (c) the nature of its regional representation, particularly a desire to see equal numbers of Senators representing each province; (d) the length of term of office; (e) the role which a revised Senate might take at a national level; and (f) the powers which would be appropriate for it to exercise in harmony with the House of Commons.

After debate, The Honourable Senator Di Nino moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Senator Jessiman, that further debate on the inquiry be adjourned until the next sitting.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted. Resuming debate on the inquiry of the Honourable Senator Gauthier calling the attention of the Senate to the Journée internationale de la francophonie, on Friday, March 20, 1998.

After debate, The Honourable Senator Murray, P.C., moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Beaudoin, that further debate on the inquiry be adjourned until the next sitting.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted. Orders No. 20 (inquiry), 48 and 54 (motions) were called and postponed until the next sitting. Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Kelly, seconded by the Honourable Senator Prud'homme, P.C.:

That a Special Committee of the Senate be appointed to hear evidence on and consider matters relating to the security intelligence operations of the Government of Canada;

That the Committee examine and report on the extent to which the recommendations of the Report of the Special Committee on Terrorism and the Public Safety (June 1987) and the Report of the Special Committee on Terrorism and the Public Safety (June 1989) have been addressed thus far by the Government of Canada;

That the Committee examine and make recommendations with respect to the adequacy of the review or oversight of the Government of Canada's security and intelligence apparatus, including each of the organizations in departments of government that conduct security and intelligence operations or that have a security and intelligence mandate;

That the Committee examine and make recommendations with respect to intra-governmental and inter-governmental co-ordination relating to the Government of Canada's security intelligence mandate and operations;

That the Committee examine and make recommendations with respect to the overall mandate and current threat assessment capability of the Government of Canada's security intelligence apparatus and of the individual organizations therein;

That seven Senators, to be designated at a later date, act as members of the Committee;

That the Committee have power to report from time to time, to send for persons, papers and records, and to print such papers and evidence from day to day as may be ordered by the Committee; and

That the Committee present its final report no later than April 15, 1998.

After debate, With leave of the Senate and pursuant to Rule 30, the motion was modified to read as follows:

That a special committee of the Senate be appointed to hear evidence on and consider matters relating to the threat posed to Canada by terrorism and the counter-terrorism activities of the Government of Canada;

That the Committee examine and report on the current international threat environment with particular reference to terrorism as it relates to Canada;

That the Committee examine and report on the extent to which the recommendations of the Report of the Special Committee on Terrorism and Public Safety (June 1987) and the Report of the Special Committee on Terrorism and the Public Safety (June 1989) have been addressed by the Government of Canada;

That the Committee examine and make recommendations with respect to the threat assessment capability of the Government of Canada relative to the threat of terrorism;

That the Committee examine and make recommendations with respect to the leadership role, preparedness and review of those departments and agencies of the Government of Canada with counter-terrorism responsibilities;

That the Committee examine and assess the level of international cooperation between Canada and its allies with respect to the evolving nature of the terrorist threat;

That seven Senators, to be designated at a later date, act as members of the Committee;

That the Committee have power to report from time to time, to send for persons, papers and records, and to print such papers and evidence from day to day as may be ordered by the Committee; and

That the Committee present its final report no later than September 29, 1998.

After debate, The Honourable Senator Kelly moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Murray, P.C., that further debate on the motion, as modified, be adjourned until the next sitting.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted. Order No. 16 (inquiry) was called and postponed until the next sitting. Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Meighen, seconded by the Honourable Senator Kirby:

That the Senate urges the Government, in the February 1998 Budget, to propose an amendment to the Income Tax Act that would increase to 30 %, by increments of 2 % per year over a five-year period, the foreign property component of deferred income plans (pension plans, registered retirement savings plans and registered pension plans), as was done in the period between 1990 to 1995 when the foreign property limit of deferred income plans was increased from 10 % to 20 %, because:

(a) Canadians should be permitted to take advantage of potentially better investment returns in other markets, thereby increasing the value of their financial assets held for retirement, reducing the amount of income supplement that Canadians may need from government sources, and increasing government tax revenues from retirement income;

(b) Canadians should have more flexibility when investing their retirement savings, while reducing the risk of those investments through diversification;

(c) greater access to the world equity market would allow Canadians to participate in both higher growth economies and industry sectors;

(d) the current 20% limit has become artificial since both individuals with significant resources and pension plans with significant resources can by-pass the current limit through the use of, for example, strategic investment decisions and derivative products; and

(e) problems of liquidity for pension fund managers, who now find they must take substantial positions in a single company to meet the 80 % Canadian holdings requirement, would be reduced.

After debate, The Honourable Senator Carstairs moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Adams, that further debate on the motion be adjourned until the next sitting.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted. Orders No. 17 (inquiry) and 1 (motion) were called and postponed until the next sitting. Resuming debate on the inquiry of the Honourable Senator Kinsella calling the attention of the Senate to reports on social and economic development.

Debate concluded. Orders No. 47 and 49 (motions) were called and postponed until the next sitting.

INQUIRIES

The Honourable Senator Di Nino called the attention of the Senate to the matter of human rights in Asia with particular emphasis on China and Indonesia and the Government of Canada's policy with respect to this matter.

After debate, The Honourable Senator Gigantès moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Hébert, that further debate on the inquiry be adjourned until the next sitting.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted. The Honourable Senator Hébert called the attention of the Senate to the difficulties and problems raised by section 35 of the new Civil Code of Quebec.

After debate, The Honourable Senator Prud'homme, P.C., moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator De Bané, P.C., that further debate on the inquiry be adjourned until the next sitting.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted. The Honourable Senator Murray, P.C., called the attention of the Senate to the vacancy in the Senate created by the retirement of the Honourable Richard Doyle of Ontario; to the long-standing tradition of appointing a senior journalist from Ontario to the Senate; and to some helpful suggestions for the Prime Minister in this regard.

After debate, The Honourable Senator Prud'homme, P.C., moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Carstairs, that further debate on the inquiry be adjourned until the next sitting.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.

REPORTS DEPOSITED WITH THE CLERK OF THE SENATE PURSUANT TO RULE 28(2):

Summaries of the Corporate Plan for 1998 to 2002 and of the Capital and Operating Budgets for 1998 of Petro-Canada Limited, pursuant to the Financial Administration Act, R.S.C. 1985, c. F-11, sbs. 125(4).-Sessional Paper No. 1/36-509.

Report on the operations under the Canada Water Act for the fiscal year ended March 31, 1996, pursuant to the Canada Water Act, R.S.C. 1985, c.C-11, s. 38.-Sessional Paper No. 1/36-510.

Actuarial Report (including Cost Certificate) on the Pension Plan for the Canadian Forces as at March 31, 1997, and certificate of assets of the Pension Plan, pursuant to the Public Pensions Reporting Act, R.S.C. 1985, c. 13 (2nd Supp.), sbs. 9(1).-Sessional Paper No. 1/36-511.

Actuarial Report (including Cost Certificate) on the Pension Plan for the Public Service of Canada, as at March 31, 1996, and certificate of assets of the Pension Plan, pursuant to the Public Pensions Reporting Act, R.S.C. 1985, c. 13 (2nd Supp.), sbs. 9(1).-Sessional Paper No. 1/36-512.

Actuarial Report (including Cost Certificate) on the Pension Plan for the Royal Canadian Mounted Police as at March 31, 1996, and certificate of assets of the Pension Plan, pursuant to the Public Pensions Reporting Act, R.S.C. 1985, c. 13 (2nd Supp.), sbs. 9(1).-Sessional Paper No. 1/36-513.

Summaries of the Corporate Plans for 1998 to 2002 and the Capital Budgets for 1998 of Canada Ports Corporation, Halifax Port Corporation, Montréal Port Corporation, Prince Rupert Port Corporation, Port of Québec Corporation, Saint John Port Corporation, St. John's Port Corporation and Vancouver Port Corporation, pursuant to the Financial Administration Act, R.S.C. 1985, c. F-11, sbs. 125(4).-Sessional Paper No. 1/36-514.

Summaries of the Corporate Plan for 1998 to 2002 and the Operating and Capital Budgets for 1998 of Marine Atlantic Inc., and the summaries of the Corporate Plans of its subsidiaries for 1998-2002, pursuant to the Financial Administration Act, R.S.C. 19885, c. F-11, sbs. 125(4).-Sessional Paper No. 1/36-515.

Summaries of the Corporate Plan for 1998 to 2002 and the Operating and Capital Budgets for 1998 of the Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation, pursuant to the Financial Administration Act, R.S.C. 1985, c. F-11, sbs. 125(4). -Sessional Paper No. 1/36-516.

Report of the Governor of the Bank of Canada and Statement of Accounts for the year 1997, pursuant to the Bank of Canada Act, R.S.C. 1985, c. B-2, sbs. 30(3).-Sessional Paper No. 1/36-517.

Report of the Export Development Corporation, together with the Auditor General's report, for the year ended December 31, 1997, pursuant to the Financial Administration Act, R.S.C. 1985, c. F-11, sbs. 150(1).-Sessional Paper No. 1/36-519.

Copies of the Federal Court Rules, 1998, made by the rules committee of the Federal Court of Canada on January 26, 1998, pursuant to the Federal Court Act, sbs. 46(5).-Sessional Paper No. 1/36-520.

ADJOURNMENT

The Honourable Senator Carstairs moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Senator Mercier:

That the Senate do now adjourn.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.

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